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Slingsby King Kite 1/4
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bocorvin
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Inscrit le: 17 Aoû 2015
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Localisation: Hillegom
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MessagePosté le: 01/12/2020 10:06    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Hallo Thomas,

Nochmahl vielen Dank fur alle info Very Happy Very Happy

Vincent (DB)
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Mad Doc
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MessagePosté le: 02/12/2020 16:47    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Hello Vincent!!!
It is always a great inspiration to see you building something, nice solutions you
created!

Hope you are well, greetings from Wuppertal!

Christian
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bocorvin
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MessagePosté le: 03/12/2020 10:26    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Hello Christian,

Thanks for your nice comments Very Happy . All is well over here in Hillegom, strange times.
The King Kite is an interesting glider, not much info about it, so it take time to solve all those riddles Confused

LG

Vincent (DB)
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bocorvin
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MessagePosté le: 09/12/2020 10:50    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

In the previous construction report I had already written something about the horizontal stabilizer. I had completely overlooked something in the plans

The front of the moving part is not only a semicircular plywood tube (which I was used to) but also a square box girder behind it. I think this is there to take up the bending and torsion of the balancing tips. In addition, the designers opted for a thin profile, which can be clearly seen in this photo (many thanks to Thomas)

. Because the horizontal stabilizer is also very tapered, the profile at the tips becomes very thin. I also wanted to keep the horizontal stabilizer very light, I presume that the 0.5mm plywood covering and web plates, glued with 2 X 2 mm spruce, should be strong enough.

I had to make sure that there was enough sheeting to keep the construction stable when removing it from my buildingboard, so I filled the space between the 2x2 beams of the rudder with balsa and glued all the web plates in. I glued diagonals in the nose, which together with the top sheeting should already form a kind of D box. The bottom sheeting can only be added when the stabilizer is off the building board.

Top sheeting, scarf joints





The TE, just like the vertical tail, is constructed from 2 layers of 0.5 plywood with balsa in between. Yet another problem caused by the balancing tips is the detachability of the rudder, it cannot be slided aside. I bent a hinge pins from 1mm steel wire, which I can later detach with the help of a screwdriver or a similar tool from the bottom








The nose D box sheeted on top also


In the background are the prebent strips for the sheeting of the elevator.

To be continued,

Vincent (DB)
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sebastian92
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MessagePosté le: 09/12/2020 11:26    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Hello Vincent,
what a speed too Laughing
j'aime bien tes petites astuces techniques pour trouver les bonnes solutions ; continue like this !



Pourvu que ça vole, roule, flotte ! normalement j'ai tout bien fait pour…
Un bel avion est un avion qui vole bien ! Marcel Dassault
…………
Sebastian

Vends module émission 2.4 ghz pour Futaba, Hitec TZ-FM + 2 récepteurs corona 8 voies (contact en MP)
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Clifton
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MessagePosté le: 09/12/2020 11:37    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

As Sebastian said, very good job, I like your mechanical's ideas too !


Slingsby Petrel, à mon gout le plus beau de tous, quoi que le Fafnir ... Ah ces ailes en mouette, un jour ....

Rien de ce qui est fini n'est jamais achevé tant que tout ce qui est commencé n'est pas totalement terminé (Pierre Dac)
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caralp_laurent
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MessagePosté le: 09/12/2020 15:07    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Hi Vincent,
Good job !
The shape of this tail is unusual and beautiful !
All this glider is beautiful, especially the shape of the cockpit canopy on a picture above.

Friendly,

Lolo



Lolométéo, rétro addict ;o)

"On commence à vieillir quand on remplace ses rêves par des regrets"
Sénèque
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bocorvin
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MessagePosté le: 09/12/2020 15:39    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Thanks for your nice comments!
Yes its a remarkable glider with a wonderfull canopy. Three prototypes were built simultaneously, all with the same error in, probably, the washout. They were very prone to spinning. Sad
In 1984 a new King Kite was build with a different profile and flew very good.

Vincent (DB)
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bocorvin
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MessagePosté le: 17/12/2020 15:05    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

I went on with the elevator. First I cut the rudderhorn from 1mm epoxy sheet. I had to attach that to the extra box girder of the elevator.

To get a proper bond, I filled the inside of the web plates with spruce strips. I didn't want to glue the rudderhorn in its place yet and stored it . Next was the nose of the rudder combined with the extra box girder. On pre-bent (with boiling water) ply strips I drew the ribs on the inside to make the various gusset plates in one piece.

In reality it was different, but I wanted it to keep it as light as possible. I glued these pre-bent strips over the main spar of the rudder to form a torsionally rigid and round nose. At the location of the hinges I milled openings.

and now the rudder had to fit the fixed part of the horizontal stabilizer. After some fiddling it fitted.

However, once I had glued one capstrip in place , attaching and loosening the elevator with a screwdriver (to keep the spring hinge pins unlocked) turned out to be quite inconvenient. After a night's sleep I made a kind of angled screwdriver from 1mm iron strip, which I could temporarely fix with a piece of tape.





Then I could turn the iron strips back and I could (combined with maximum deflection of the elevator) take them out.


. Now the pivot pins sprung back in place and the rudder was secured. I was very happy with this, because I could also apply this technique to the ailerons. Besides I like to have the rudders removable, its easy with varnishing and covering

With some clamping the tips were sheeted with ply

Then I sanded all the triangular gusset plates neatly into shape and the stabilizer was more or less ready. It feels very stiff and weighs 118 grams, I can’t get it lighter....

To be continued,

Vincent (DB)
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de Schaetzen Harold
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MessagePosté le: 18/12/2020 09:45    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Dear Vincent,

Congratulations for your the interesting construction method.
I believe you don't sleep very well, since tou started this new project. Every night you wake up and come with a new solution.

I am waiting for the new steps.

Best regards.
Harold
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bocorvin
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MessagePosté le: 18/12/2020 11:15    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Dear Harold,

Thanks for your nice remarks. Luckily I sleep quite well, I found out that idea's just pop up at moments that you don't think about it Confused .
The problems I like to solve keep slowly nagging at me Laughing

Best regards,

Vincent (DB)
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bocorvin
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MessagePosté le: 23/12/2020 12:11    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

I went on with the vertical tail.
The fin was already ready with one side sheeted, but unfortunately I saw that both on the drawing and on the photos that the vertical tail had a much rounder nose than the profile I had chosen, afterwards that was not the right choice. I had already sheeted one side, so I ripped that off. I glued filler pieces to the ribs

sanded them, along with those of the rudder, with a long sanding batten into a more rounded profile.
With the technique I was familiar with, I bent the plywood into shape



with boiling water. I and sheeted both the fixed part and the rudder itself



Finished it with capstrips on the ribs and sanded the gusset plates in shape



The vertical stabilizer was now roughly ready, and weighs 50 grams.
With the tailplanes in this stage I can slowly start on the fuselage.

Vincent (DB)
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Sed
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Inscrit le: 13 Mai 2015
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MessagePosté le: 23/12/2020 14:24    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Hello Vincent

Very nice job [clap] [clap] ! And light [good] !
Now waiting for the fuselage Wink !



Serge
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MessagePosté le: 31/12/2020 13:39    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Bonjour a tous,

After finishing the tail planes it was time to digitally draw the fuselage. I decided to having a go at it and bought Devfus, a program that is still affordable for a hobbyist.
After a lot of messing around with terms on the screen that I had never heard of, I got familiar with some things! Unfortunately, sometimes drawings were suddenly put (by magic??) in a different folder and I could no longer open them in the drawing program (Yes, laugh ...) Thats why I drew the hull about three times, practice makes perfect they say ... Gradually I found out what is possible, it is easier to make a hull straight in a drawing than to sand frames down or glue some extra material on. Here you see some of the drawings of the frames and


placement of the frames,

the 3d view of the fuselageI



thought it would be convenient to use a central batten to align the frames. My friend Adri was kind enough to CNC the frames and he did it excellent. Just like with the Gull, I made a construction setup of a panel of chipboard to which I screwed 10 x 10mm battens at frame distances. I deliberately made a “jump” in it because I wanted to sheet parts of the hull on the construction setup. The tail at the top and the nose at the bottom. In this way, it stays nice and straight and the stringers can be as thin as possible, to keep the weight of the tail down


Aligning the frames took a lot of time and I would like to hurry up, but I know sadly that errors in the frame setup are difficult to correct later . One of the two main bulkheads is prepared so the wingjoiner can be slid through it

Here is the 3X3mm spruce batten which slides through the centre of the frames,. I first wanted to screw them on the jig, but clamps actually do it better.

I first glued in both stringers left and right and then made the wide bottom (keel?) stringer, where the landing skate will be attached later.

So nice that the frames were “aligned” ( Ican’t find the correct word for that), I didn't have to sand them much! Designing took quite a bit of effort, but this was very satisfying

It's starting to look like a fuselage!



Vincent (DB)
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de Schaetzen Harold
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MessagePosté le: 01/01/2021 11:49    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Dear Vincent,

Very nice to discover your construction this 1st of Jan. 2021! A lot of work was done during these last days.

Congratulations for all your research work to find a correct solutions for your hull construction.
I used the same construction lay-out for my Ka2B. Already a few yeas ago.
A very easy system.

I am only a little afraid for the "light construction". (Maybe a fault view, because your pictures are a small size?)
You will have some work for strengthen the fuselage?

Best regards and only good news for 2021.
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bocorvin
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MessagePosté le: 01/01/2021 15:56    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Dear Harold,

Glad you found it a nice surprise on 1st of Januari Very Happy
About the size of the girders in the tail of the fuselage; I think the ply sheeting can take all the loads, the girders must be just stiff enough to glue on the ply sheeting and prevent the buckling of the ply.

Best regards and also best wishes for 2021, stay safe!

Vincent (DB)
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bocorvin
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MessagePosté le: 10/01/2021 16:58    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Sorting out the tail.
First I had to make the tail shoe, I laminated the bottom girder and made two small frames, I had to deduct that from the photos how that was constructed, nice to find out, but sometimes it takes a while!


I could not find any details of the fuselage to the horizontal stabilizer transition in any photo. I think the mounting method would be just like the Gull I built before and which was made by the same people. It was stuck with 4 horizontal pins that were inserted from both sides

this gives an idea of how that was made in the real Gull.. In the model of my Gull I solved that with 2 continuous 1mm steel wire pins and that is how I want to do it for the King Kite. The design of the fuselage at that location was not clear to me.





First I made the frames at the stabilo position according to the drawing. Partly because I did not know the thickness of the stabilizer profile, this was not correct. so it did not work, I adjusted it in 3 different ways before I felt that I had it right. For the fairing of the fuselage at the front of the horizontal stabiler I laminated a plate



from balsa and 0.4mm plywood on both sides, which I sanded in a in contour of the fuselage. It turned out that there was also kind of infill in front of the vertical fin

Unfortunately, I had made the vertical fin a bit thinner than the real one, so that now the elevator no longer fitted nicely to it, I also changed that a bit. So, after gluing the vertical fin and properly positioning the stabilo



, I thought that , when sheeted with ply, it will look just as the real thing.

Vincent (DB)
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Sed
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MessagePosté le: 10/01/2021 17:14    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Hello Vincent,

Very good job as usual [clap] [clap] !
The junction of the rudder and the elevator does not seem easy [humm] !

Good continuation



Serge
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bocorvin
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MessagePosté le: 10/01/2021 17:24    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Hello Sed,

Yes you are right, but its also the lack of documentation is a challenge Confused
Its rewarding when it works out!

Vincent (DB)
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bocorvin
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MessagePosté le: 14/01/2021 12:20    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Bonjour a tous,
The placement of the servos was next. Before I started, I first made a tow coupling. On the Gull I had made one that worked well and took up little space inside. I soldered a piece of 6mm internal brass tube and another piece of 2mm internal brass pipe at right angles to each other with silver.

Drilled a 2mm hole through and through and made it a bit larger with a reamer .

so that a 2mm iron round could move freely through it. Over that 2mm round I soldered a piece of brass tube, which I flattened at the end with a hammer and drilled a 1mm hole for the operating rod

I glued the coupling in the front fuselage frame, reinforced it with some roving to take up the forces

(the 2mm drill is only temporary while the resin sets)
Now the servo’s. I wanted to have them in the front (good for the CG) and low, so I can make a scale interior , which I like to make... After some thinking I came up with a servo tray for the 3 fuselage servos






The blue arrow points to the rudder servo that actuates the rudder with 2 pull-pull cables, the yellow arrow to the coupling release servo, the rod will go under the rudder servo arm to the coupling. At the red arrow is the elevator servo, that will actuate the elevator with a push-pull Bowden cable, fixed in the holder? (black arrow).


Then I sheeted the inside with 0.6mm plywood. The front of the fuselage is now quite stable.




Its my intention to sheet the top end of the fuselage while its still secured at the building rig to keep it in shape while putting the ply on.

Vincent (DB)
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Clifton
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MessagePosté le: 14/01/2021 12:53    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

What a nice job ! [clap] [clap] [clap]


Slingsby Petrel, à mon gout le plus beau de tous, quoi que le Fafnir ... Ah ces ailes en mouette, un jour ....

Rien de ce qui est fini n'est jamais achevé tant que tout ce qui est commencé n'est pas totalement terminé (Pierre Dac)
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MessagePosté le: 14/01/2021 13:09    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

good job Vincent [good]


Pourvu que ça vole, roule, flotte ! normalement j'ai tout bien fait pour…
Un bel avion est un avion qui vole bien ! Marcel Dassault
…………
Sebastian

Vends module émission 2.4 ghz pour Futaba, Hitec TZ-FM + 2 récepteurs corona 8 voies (contact en MP)
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MessagePosté le: 14/01/2021 14:09    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Très belle construction en dentelle, avec des sections de bois fines et bien choisies qui ajoutent du réalisme [clap]


Retroplane et modélisme en pause, vanlife à haute dose.
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bocorvin
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MessagePosté le: 14/01/2021 14:26    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Merci pour tous les comments positive Very Happy Very Happy

J'ai hesite de user des longerons petites, mes sur cette photo de Cliff Evans



on peut voir que en realitee ils sons aussi petites.


Vincent (DB)
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MessagePosté le: 14/01/2021 14:56    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

C'est vrai ce que tu dis Vincent !
maintenant que tu le remarques (je doute fort que tu ais perdu la main… en tous les cas ton regard est toujours aussi pointu !) les sections choisies par Vincent (DB) sont hyper réalistes !! Wink
On est nombreux, je pense, (moi entre autres)… à mettre des sections de bois plus importantes pour les cadres, les baguettes, les longerons… par crainte de solidité ?
Ce que fait Vincent (DB) c'est ce qui fait que ça donne une maquette très réaliste, tout en étant bien suffisamment rigide, visiblement Very Happy



Pourvu que ça vole, roule, flotte ! normalement j'ai tout bien fait pour…
Un bel avion est un avion qui vole bien ! Marcel Dassault
…………
Sebastian

Vends module émission 2.4 ghz pour Futaba, Hitec TZ-FM + 2 récepteurs corona 8 voies (contact en MP)
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MessagePosté le: 14/01/2021 15:37    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Merci Sebastian, excuse, je continue en Anglais,
I have to make all the ply joints very, very carefully, they have to take all the strain. The advantage is that the tail"boom" becomes lighter, so much less ballast. Now the whole glider becomes lighter and hopefully there will be less chance on damage with bad landings. I have to wait and see........
I think that Etori Bugatti said ; "Si ca casse, fait le plus legere". I am not sure if he said that, but I like the way of thinking.

Vincent (DB)
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MessagePosté le: 14/01/2021 15:46    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Yes Vincent, you're right !
more weight = more inertia = more breakage… build light as possible ! good currency Wink



Pourvu que ça vole, roule, flotte ! normalement j'ai tout bien fait pour…
Un bel avion est un avion qui vole bien ! Marcel Dassault
…………
Sebastian

Vends module émission 2.4 ghz pour Futaba, Hitec TZ-FM + 2 récepteurs corona 8 voies (contact en MP)
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VincentB
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MessagePosté le: 14/01/2021 16:55    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Il y a quand même un autre paramètre à prendre en compte, quand on atterri dur, ce qui arrive souvent, surtout à la pente, si on compare la même chose avec un grandeur il exploserait sans laisser aucune chance au pilote Laughing nous ça se solde par quelques réparations et c'est reparti.
N'empêche que si on devait garder toutes les proportions de section des grandeurs, ok c'est super beau, mais ce serait quand même fragile, et de toute façon, être trop léger ne permettrait pas de voler quand il y a un peu de vent, donc les compromis que l'on utilise sont pas si mauvais que ça. Après c'est vrai que plus c'est fin, plus c'est joli, et aussi, difficile à travailler.



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MessagePosté le: 14/01/2021 19:01    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

You are right Vincent, hopefully I made it just strong enough.
Time will learn and I hope for the best!

Vincent (DB)
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MessagePosté le: 23/01/2021 13:33    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Bonjour a tous,
Before continuing with the cockpit, the remarks of Vincent BecanconI got me thinking about the size of the stringers in the fuselage. They have about the same (scale) size as the example, but my landings are a bit rougher than the real ones. On the other hand, a light tail boom provides much less ballast and so on. I decided to put a single glass roving with epoxy on the inside of the left and right stringer, the stiffness of glass is closer to that of wood than that of carbon. I hope it works out well.I drilled 2mm holes next to the beam and with a double folded 0.2mm steel wire I pulled the dry roving wire through the holes and impregnated it with epoxy.




Just like the tool to pull a wire through the needle. Very Happy

After curing, the girders feel much stiffer and not much weight is added. To get the cockpit right I first fitted the pilot (borrowed from my Gull) and after some fiddling he was neatly in place . Made a backrest, seat and floor from plywood / balsa sandwich, they are fixed with screws in plywood supports,







Enough space over the servos.


The planned receiver battery box had a conflict with the pilot's feet, so I changed it and now the pilot has room for his feet and there is space for a 2s 1700Mah LiFe and 4s 2000Mah eneloop, they will be connected with a Schottky diode. If all goes well I can read the voltage on my transmitter.




Now I could start making the cockpit canopy. In that period it was not possible to make a bubble canopy's, so this canopy is made of curved panels, nice characteristic, beautiful (thanks to Thomas for the photo).



To make the supporting structure I laminated three frames.


and glued them together on the fuselage .



The canopy is secured at the front two pins (yellow arrow) and in the back with strong magnets, both in the hood as in the fuselage. The magnets are glued between layers 0.6 triplex (Black arrow).


From 0.6mm plywood I laminated the longerons?



. The canopy was quite a time consuming job, but now the frame is ready for varnishing and glazing.



Vincent (DB)
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